Everyones a little bit racist..dont u think?
Enjoy the avenue Q song,im sorry i couldnt find the video,the ones available werent all that.Tell me if u guys agree:)
On the day they call my bday,fate guides some dude to my msn address, he adds me and decides to chatter.Considering id do ANYTHING to distract myself from the agony of studies and the stress of exams, i was actually looking forward to getting to know some new face.However,for some reason the dude deemed it inappropriate to continue conversing with the likes of me..heres what went on..maybe im overreacting just a tad(since it was that time of the month when penalties would reduced and i could get away with stuff i usually dont get away with:)
Dude: Hi
Me:hey
Dude: How are you doing? ( and yes he spoke so properly which i found kinda rare these days)
Me: fine alhamdolellah (noticing he had an arabic,to be more specific muslim name therefore could use my own term to express our thanks above)u?
Dude: Fine thank God,Am i disturbing you?
Me:*thinking wow..havent heard that in years, this dude must be a decent one..a species threatened to extinct* No not at all.
Dude:What's up?
Me: studyin for exams:(not going so well etc..
Dude: are you cramming and stuff?
Me:hell yeah!
Dude:serves u right/u deserve that then or something of the sort
Me:*whatever*..err yeah lol
Dude:what do you study?
Me:medicine
Dude:then it does suit u right
Dude:who are all these people crowded in your avatar?
Me:me and my bros and some friends.
Dude: are you the veiled girl and the far left?
Me:yes, im the only girl in the pic :)
Dude:in that case then..have a nice day:)
Me:*huh*? i read that fat lol
Dude:adios
Me:excuse me?
Dude:sorry, dont talk to veiled girls..adios
Me:*thinking WTF,thats something u dont come across everyday, in a country where there are alot of veiled girls roaming around and i mean veiled as in "headscarf" not niqab..i.e u could still see my face, and my personality and not judge me so swiftly and ruthlessly*..Why?
Dude:i just dont talk to veiled girls
Me: enraged by the excuse..i dont understand?tell me why and i promise ill leave u alone
Dude:*insisting* adios
Me: *spitting back in spanish*translation: u aint leaving till u convince me or something..thats racist
Dude:exactly *shoot so he does understand*
Dude:its not racism
Me:dime
Dude: Because everytime i did i regretted it afterwards!so bye
Me:i regretted talkin to every guy i talked to! i got hurt so should i go boycotting them and go lesbian??
Dude: i dont care, u do as u please, but lesbianism is Haram.
Me:*what on earth?,hes driving me nuts..so i start thinking of something provocative..i gotta say something evil like BE A MAN! but that would be totally out of context lol, so the devil hisses be it the real thing or the one inside me "if u think ur a muslim u should think again."..mmm ill go for that
Dude: now this is the last thing ill say..Dont judge someones degree of faith, u dont know.
Me: *shoot dude has a point but he hurt my feelings, he didnt give a damn about it, he judged me straight in my face for something i chose to wear for belief and i felt crushed..thinking theres racism everywhere even between muslims which we've established agggeees ago, but ive had to take enough agony and racism abroad to endure this too..not that day..not any day.Ive been excluded in several job interviews for wearing the veil and ive mentioned that in posts before even though i was qualified enough, that didnt bug me that much..i just was NOT ready to hear that cuz i know its merely a test..life is..but apparently i need to boost my level of perseverance. Would i have rathered him lie and say he had something to attend to then block me for good? answer:Hell yes! or even impolitely block me right away.It would never have hit me, i wouldve figured he thght i was ugly or something and wouldve been ok with it.*
.........................
Later...
Me:whatever veiled girls did to u..(shit im talkin as if wer a completely different species,,this is insane!) well not all veiled girls are alike..and that was racist
Dude:doesnt answer back
Me:anyway, May God forgive u..*is what i saw myself punch in* the eternal battle between tryin to be good and trying to avenge ur hurt ego.
liberty of expression?i doubt..we've been thru enough racism and discrimination these days to create new antagonistic issues out of the blue..why cant we just respect one another damn it!its almost over and we'll all die..we might as well live in peace since no one comes with a "how to become immortal steps pamphlet"
would like to hear opinions.Im open to criticism..i know theres a long bumpy road to being good,,maybe its high time i gave it a shot..
or maybe after exams lool
later
posted by Cleopatrina at 11:30 AM
21 Comments:
You must give credit to the guy for honesty.
I can understand what he meant, the number of time a veiled woman wouldnt get in the elevator with me or kept away from me in stores or coffee shops as if im going to be eyeing her & preparing myself to rape her gets on my nerves! Its disgusting...isn't that racist or at least prejudiced?
besides, the hair cover is not in any way an islamic obligation & i have looked into it so many times that im fed up with preachers who will next tell women to cover their faces & they already are...what is islamic for sure is respect & modesty, period.
The guy obviously was treated badly by a veiled girl that he decided not to deal with them anymore. But the comment of lesbianism is haram is a bit stupid, since many lesbians are born that way, like gays...its not by choice like the people of sodom & gomorrah.
what do you feel about doctors who refuse to treat patients with STD saying its a punishment from God?
I will rest my case & rest my head.
Jokerman:even though i disagree with most of the stuff u said, i totally agree with respecting others.If a woman chooses to wear the headscarf, regardless of the fact it is an obligation or not and by headscarf we are talkin about the ensemble of "loose fit respectable non provocative clothes since many do not abide by these terms and call themselves veiled" she has already battled quite a huge part of her inner self since she would no longer be regarded as an object of attraction, no longer be approached or complimented for being pretty and of course i dont mean approached sexually.Her intentions were simple..God matters more to me than my ego.It needs power and determination to take such a step,but when she takes it she really shouldnt be scrutinized for it since the aim in the first place was to try to diminish temptation and hence promiscuity in a frustrated society and not merely protection for her own self.Point is, let her practice her own belief the way she wants it and feels happier..God is the one who judges her actions and intentions accordingly and NOT the people.i equally agree that many veiled girls harrass non-veiled girls but all of non-educated poorer social classes who know nothing about the depth of Islam, therefore appear as hypocrites since they are ethically defective.But should we just go hating eachother and fighting one another in every opportunity?and are all egyptians, asians, americans, muslims, bearded men, jews alike?should we just go generalizing and yield to clanning people into dreaded catergories just to save our conscience the whole trouble of changing our stereotypes? i totally disagree.if it werent for racism and "labelling people" tolerance wouldve had more space to breathe.
back to the dialogue i posted, even if u do diagree with what a person believes in..wouldnt u rather just not talk about the subject..if ur further disgusted by his presence..where does it say in Islam that u should treat people like scum for disagreeing and hence hurt their feelings?Prophet Mohammed treated the jews remarkably kindly with justice and we dont have to go there..so muslims cant stand eachother for being a bit different?
huge question mark there
p.s about the doctors and punishment for God
THATS CRAAPPP!!!!! and God will punish them for that.Its evil and inhumane merging from their complexities and retarded beilefs that they could be better than someone just cuz their faults havent been disclosed..
I think that its inexcusable that anyone humiliate someone else like that. You had every right to feel the way you did. And as you said, it would have been preferable to just say that he had to go and left. You wouldn't have gotten offended what-so-ever.
I don't buy that he was treated badly by a veiled girl crap. I was treated badly by a guy who wears shorts, do I stereotype all guys who wear shorts in one category and stay away from them? And not only that, but tell them to their face "sorry, don't talk to guys in shorts". What a load of crap.
I agree. People MUST be respectful to one another. In any religion.
LOL. next time I go swimming I'll wear a "modest" bikini as Islam preaches modesty.
I am veiled, and I feel alot safer. I'm sorry to say this, but I get alot less come-ons from guys in the street after I wore the veil. Its not just a symbol of faith, but its also protection. I mean, I remember being hassled EVERYTIME I went out before I got veiled, and not just by strangers, but also from guys I knew!
I think that if we give him credit for being honest, we might as well give him credit for being racist!
I know how you feel. Everytime I go abroad, I get stared at. Its like all the people around you think you're some sort of terrorist. I know one veiled woman in Europe who was checked for shoplifting in one store and then they claimed "it was totally random". Yeah right! Its one thing to feel prejudiced against in a foreign country, but to feel it when you're home???
Girl, hang in there.
Women are not objects of desire, that remark you made shows how you think women were made for men, the same theory applies to men, they should also cover so not to tempt women!! women were only called upon to cover their cleavage area since the opening showed alot in those days, never said to cover the hair, it also called on men & women alike to not stare, because that yathreb society, like most arab socieites of the time, were indulging in heavy physical affairs.
The bit about God judging the actions is interesting, as many nowadays call anyone with a slight difference of religious opinion an apostate, there is nothing new in what you said....God is the only judge, but at the same time, you dont dare to say God ordered something when he didnt, God doesnt order illogicals from the faithful, the problem issue here is do you really know your religion quite well, or take the scholars words for granted without thinking about it?
As for generalising,majority of people do generalise,dont you yourself generalise & stereotype too??
& God vs your ego is not something relevant here, as for beards, beards are not part of religion,not part of the christian, judaic or islamic at least.
all that because a guy refrained from chatting with you because of your veil!!? someone who said it wouldve been better if he said he had to go is typically middle eastern, avoid the real subject, the preference of a lie over honesty, the guy didnt swear at you or call you names so how can it be racist? if you are sitting somewhere & a guy comes up to you & is trying to be friendly, would you still sit there or get up & walk away? The schizophrenia sweeping the minds of the young nowadays is scary.
saralicious
your rhetoric regarding the guy being racist is really flawed.
I can turn the same argument on you & claim you are racist.
veiled women have a code to deal with men, they might not shake hands when a guy greets them, isnt that offensive too & racist?? Why cant you look at it that the guy simply thinks its wrong to chat with a veiled girl, avoids any future inevitable embarrassments that will seep out of that code?
you dont have to buy anything really, your analogy is quite crap regarding the shorts, as i said, veiled women have codes, some are sensible & some are outrageously stupid, in their dealigns with the opposite sex, if a man harrasses a woman, he is a jerk, if a veiled woman snubs a guy in a handshake, shes also a jerk, to many codes & cant do this, cant discuss this, cant talk about this....the guy cut a long story short was honest & it wasnt humiliating, unless someone has a chip on her shoulder which by then its her own problem to deal with.
Jokerman:i believe u are missing out on the whole point because u obviously identify with a different problem..mmm where should we start..ah yes..the women as objects..
Well do the media,men and several other well known business rely on the manipulation of a womans beauty for their own personal interest?to be more specific..sexual conspiciousy?u name it..models, video clips, adds,companies, exhibitions..dont go there.So where did i mention that women are made for the pleasure of men mind u!this is insane and ask ur patriarchal sex about how they even refer to women in their absence..the harrassment, the touching, the groping is not what women usually do..its the men.They may not even do it for the sake of sexual quenching..for power inflinction or even humiliation and its something u will never understand until uve felt it and cried away in vain while people pat u on the shoulder and say "it happens"..Of course women should lower their gaze and not ponder on a mans beauty or virility or whatever u may call it to stir their sexual desires.Yet,our different structure of hormones is a fact, ask any doctor u know to explain the variation.(a small hint:androgens are responsable for libido..guys supposedly have alot more)
About God being the judge.Goes without saying..where again did i claim to know any better?if u blame people for being something dont go blaming it out on me.True alot of people rebel against different opinions, that is without a shadow of doubt wrong.We all have our differences, its how we deal with it is the big ordeal.I am AGAINST preaching anything besides morality and ethics so dont go around thinking this is an open invitation to girls to cover their heads that is between them and God.They have brains, they have a heart, they have their personal spiritual connection.However,u have implied that the cleavage is the only "seductive" part in a female..im no guy, but i know alot of guys would beg to differ.Still,iam not goin to delve in any of that.
Beard, yes i agree has nothin to do with islam,ur absolutely correct.
I believe as well i choose what is relevant and what is not.God vs. my ego is not only in terms of hijab, its overcoming temptation as a whole.There should be no ego when it comes to God, thats what i was tryin to imply.Its ur power of compliance,hence Islam:surrendering your face to God with all its metaphorical meanings as well as simplest ones.
Yes,Im no perfect muslim, thats not a matter of questioning..its a fact however i do acknowledge my problems instead of constantly justifying them.Nobody is perfect.
So yes it is a big deal for me and NOT for veiled girls,wanting to belong and not be alienated for whatever reason is something human and natural, i did not link it to the "veiled girls" or to "islam".The guy hurt me on a personal level thats why i repeatedly said: he couldve just left.hypocrisy? no sir.typical middle eastern?whatever..it doesnt offend and hurt the other persons feelings.and i believe that is something all docrines teach.
If someone comes up to me and starts a small talk? hell yes i would be engaged.whoever gave u the idea i wouldnt? unless u are judging a typical "egyptian" girl and not a typical "veiled" girl.Just like guys who still think girls ask them out are sluts..yes these ancient ideas are still alive.
The whole point of my post is not just the racism..its how u could satisfy ur own grudge expressin it on the account of others.I was hurt, i believe its my right to say so.at the very least.
Yes everyone is a little bit racist, but this guy goes further than 'little'. He's free to do what he pleases and talk to whoever he feels like. The problem here is that you took it too personal, as if it were you who was doing something wrong, while in fact it was him. He was the one passing judgements and hurting others in the process. Whatever his past experience was with veiled girls, it does not give him the right to stereotype, what does he take people for? A herd!? And to limit yourself to only a sector of society that you are going to deal with while you shut off the rest, is so wrong again (I am running out of words to describe his attitude, don't want to start name-calling).I've always thought racism was out of the question here in Egypt, since we all are the same race here -is this why Benetton closed down? When talk about religious prejudice started, it made no sense at all, and now wer are talking about prejudice within the same religion?!!?
Jokerman: I am sorry but you seem to have little first hand experience about the current Egyptian society
Quite amusing,
http://zozo2k3.blogspot.com/2005/10/in-defense-of-religion.html
I'd like u to read that post, it's a bit old but i think u should...
The fact of the matter is, extremes only result in extremes,
I'm an Atheist, Islam doesnt even ACKNOWLEDGE my right to live, or let's say the "interpretation" of islam, because I think that Ideologies [religions are ideologies] are much more flexible than the people who believe in them, which is quite funny. dont ya think?
Still, the post I told u to read, is my own 2 cents about religious people being discriminated against, cuz, well at least I guess, we've written a lot about discrimination against non-religious people, so it's only fair to go through both.. ;)
cheers.
yazan:thank u so much for sharing that post with me,its really inspiring.I unarguably agree with understanding and giving reason to discrimination and respect ur attitude towards religion and the religious.U actually spoke my mind hehe.
I think its important to see religion the way God wants u to see it and not through the eyes of human beings..through ur very own insight that God granted u, ur heart and ur mind.The message any religion on earth conveys is quite simple..believe in the creator, love, fear and respect Him,comply as much sa u can bearing faith that it is for ur best interest and for those who surround u until the final test.Accordingly, not everyone prepares for the exam from the same source, however, the same principles leading to the same results.
Religion and Belief are far from congruent.Belief is ur own connection, ur spirituality which is not a matter of how much u think,but feel and meditate.Religion is the universal constitution which requires belief to abide by and not force,let alone hate and discrimination.We do not live for religion, we live with the help of religion for God's service.There are so many common misconceptions that may be appalling enough for u to refuse the constitution..that doesnt mean it is flawed..its the interpretation that is.
thnks again:)
I'm happy that the post was a good read, It was just an explanation...
okay, now since u thoroughly understand my position about religion, and tolerance... I would also love if u'd read this post...
http://zozo2k3.blogspot.com/2005/11/hijab-follow-up.html
I know it's too much, but I have a feeling that this might be a good read too, since I do like ur post, and ur "consistent" harassment of that poor guy who didnt want to talk to a veiled girl.. ;)
Luci:
kol 7ad bera7to f nafso.... this is soo annoying... ppl attack those who wear revealing clothes and those who are "mot7ashemeen". Aslan if a girl wants to turn a lesbo no1 has the right to judge her... only god has that right...
P.S. hope u dnt tell "sa3ayda" jokes :p
yazan:lol@harrasing the guy.puh leeez i didnt harrass him.i was merely demanding an explanation he refused to provide.At least in your post u gave reasons for ur respect vs.disrespect for veiled girls. going thru a rough time myself,i may have had less patience than i shouldve,but i believe i havent harrassed the fellow by any means.
About the hijab,why should it be demeaning? here im talkin about those who wear it for pure spiritual compliance and understand the depth of its significance.Putting aside the machism vs.femminism and the abundantly increasing animosities between men and women rights,Women shouldnt think men are outrageous unscrupulous flesh hunters cuz they are not,at least not all of them :) as much as Men should not judge women by how they dress,be it too little or too much.So discrimination cuts both ways.
My post is not about hijab again.Its about dealing with ur prejudice and racism w/o hurting anyone or invading their liberty of expression.
If u dont believe in God,why on earth should u expect yourself to put up with rules and regulations He set.Unless u believe and love God,religion will be nothing but a huge pain in the rear.(very feeble comparison)like financially supporting your family,being faithful to ur wife cuz u love her more than anything and any other pleasure u may feel with anyone else is incomparable to that special connection u have with her.vs. being faithful bec."u have to"says her parents or theyll kick ur ass.
I have many atheist, christian and jewish friends(fewer only bec i come across very few).the reason why we r still friends is our respect for one another even thgh we obviously have differences.We dont go around shooting painful comments stabbing eachothers beliefs,otherwise its the chaos we see everyday and who people take as a reference to the doctrine itself.*sighs*
im not defending veiled girls,im defending girls (human beings) who choose to wear the veil bec they really felt it in their hearts they should,yet it doesnt change a girls personality..
Luci:looooooooooooooooooolll
couldnt agree anymore.
nope..no sa3ayda jokes heheh
cleo, cleo.. [can i call u cleo btw, i mean i get the idea, and it's a nice name, but it's just tooo long, and the keys are too scattered meaning not a typing-friendly name ;)??]
anyways, i said..
"Hijab, I honestly feel that it is demeaning to a female, UNLESS she in her own will chose to wear it, and very few do that."
Did u miss that "UNLESS" part.. ;)
i love ur perspective btw...
cheers
yazan: heheh of course u could call me cleo..i kinda like it;)
nope didnt forget the unless part:)
thanks again
Luci:
my last post on the blog is about the racist jokes... read it..
I didnt imply the only seductive part is the cleavage, i merely said it was mentioned in the Quran as women in prophet's days wore low garments.
& yes i do know what in vain means, you have been harrassed im sure as every female in your society suffered, but because its the men's attitude & thinking thats to blame , not women, i said it was a male chauvinisitic scoeity.
You cannot overcome temptation,it ws there & always will be, regulate it, control it, but you cannot overcome it as whole & i fail to see whats that got to do with Ego or God!
you you simply have delved into many issues & wrote too much about stuff to prove a point which you havent, i cannot see how that guy was racist for what he said, you can say stupid, idiotic, silly maybe but racist isnt the right word, i think you made a big thing out of a small issue but i still dont think you shouldve been hurt that way all cos of a jerk.
Maybe i am a drama queen:)
but he didnt stop talking to me because im boring or stupid..he stopped bec he noticed i wore the scarf..some sort of discrimination which is not personal.I did overreact i guess*slaps me*
we never said we could overcome temptation, whats the matter with minimizing it though:)
About the ego part,i meant overcoming ur pride as an individual doing anything God teaches u,or abiding by any ethics and principles u believe in when u could just act foolishly and let that energy out the incorrect way.
Well lets sum it up tp say its something between me and God lol.
Damn..i do talk alot hehe.
thanks anyway jokerman
lady, you are welcome...i wish people would understand when i tell them its between me & my God. :)
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